I have had a disturbing thought, and this is not because I hold either alignment, I do not.
I have had a disturbing thought, and this is not because I hold either alignment, I do not. I am beginning to suspect that a simulacrum is identical in almost all visible ways to a human. The simulacrum (as Hank Johnson demonstrated) believes they are human and acting under their own will. However, we have reason to suspect (though it is far from proven) that Simulacrums are N'zeer creations (or is this true?) that might well function like the flesh and blood equivalent of video game avatars at the bidding of the N'zeer. Thus, when Hank Johnson was functioning as Enlightened, was he, in fact, doing the bidding of the N'zeer or can the Shapers operate Simulacrum also?
Given that there exists no true evidence of the Shapers, this could simply be an attempt by the N'zeer to generate division prior to invasion or implantation. Divide and conquer as it were.
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allan Wright I think that simulacrum not only only are operate, but obtain, observe, and keep all information for the shapers.... Is like an AI that gives shapers all information that they need
ReplyDeleteRecursion generates a new body. The 1331 process resets the mind to an earlier point. The self image, the identity appears to remain in tact. What outside influences do you think are applied? Some underlying compulsions? Was Hank acting outside his normal goals when he was immortal?
ReplyDeleteHmmm so we are all sock puppets with hands sticking up our....
ReplyDeleteMy theory is that A Detection Algorithm is as well a simulacra from the original Ada. However, being an entity, what is expected to happen if both are at the same place, the same time?
ReplyDeleteInteresting theory Edgar Allan Wright. If what you are suggesting is true, that would explain how alignments change so easily due to anomalies. The surge of xm could destabilize the connection that exists between simulacra and the Shapers/N'zeer allowing the signal to be hijacked by an opposing interest.
ReplyDeletePerhaps Hank's simulacrum had the 1331 day timer on it because there 13 Magnus ritual wasn't the "pure" N'Zeer procedure?
ReplyDeleteOver time, assuming the 1331 day cycle and mind reset are inherent to the process, a simulacrum would definitely be inclined to serve the interest of whoever initiated him to the 13Magnus ritual. The initiator chooses the time when the process occurs and thus the mental state in which the simulacrum respawns. I would imagine whoever controls access to the ritual would take care to guide potential subjects through a formation process to ensure that state meets with their approval before the ritual takes place.
ReplyDeleteDerrick Lathrop I think that you're onto something. This would make sense, with Roland Jarvis being an "alpha test", and Hank Johnson being the "beta test" and then finally with Jahan being the "release" version.
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allan Wright these would be different states of perfection with the N'Zeer simulacra process.
Though the argument will arise about the true definition of "free will" could never be made for or against.
Derrick Lathrop You may be right, but I think you have the order of people turning into simulacrum backwards. We know Hank was a simulacrum back in 2010. Jarvis entered the portal network back in 2012 I believe, and didn't become a simulacrum until after 13Magnus.
ReplyDeleteDerrick Lathrop His recursion happened 1331 days after he was shot at the nest in 2010. He was a simulacrum back then.
ReplyDeleteI think the N'zeer are the same as the Shapers, and if they can't get minds one way, they try the other. Two sides of the same coin. As it ever was.
ReplyDeleteTL;DR "The world may never know how many licks it takes to get to the center of the simulacrum... "
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, "to die" for the simulacrum is essential to get the answers for those questions that have been made during 1331 days. It's like they should investigate in this world (dimension), finding clues and collecting intel with the target to compete the puzzle with info of the other/s side/s. We are not able to see the whole picture cause n'zeer and shapers have the rest of the pieces. The only way to acquire this ancient/complet knowledge is the ancestral traveling between dimensions. What do you think Edgar Allan Wright?
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allan Wright If humanity has long had simulacrum walking amongst us and controlled by the N'Zeer or the Shapers, or both I would posit a few concepts for consideration:
ReplyDelete1. The Shapers had dominant control for some lengthy time period, consistent with the evidence we have found of N'Zeer influence being shut out. The re-emergence of the N'Zeer as a controlling entity may have only recently started (perhaps with the introduction of the Blue/Resistance resonating XM modulations or the weakening of the portal network via the Virus).
2. Calvin may not have been acting as an agent of either the Shapers or the N'Zeer, but perhaps sought the ability to create and control Simulacra directly. Perhaps even Omnivore and/or A Detection Algorithm were created for this purpose. If that is part of their original designs, we have seen the evidence with A Detection Algorithm ingression of Klue S. and with 855.
3. While A Detection Algorithm may have successfully (or partly at least) ingressed those two, it appears that Bowles was able to use the same mechanism to take control of 855. Is this the culmination of a long-running project (perhaps Calvin's) to gain the capacity to "operate" Simulacra ourselves (or himself)? Would a human organization with this power be any less a threat than the Shapers or N'Zeer?
If the shapers can influence ordinary humans (or as the resistance would call it, mind hacking), then arguably they would have no need for simulacra. That could be why the shapers fear the N'zeer - the latter create simulacra that are immune to shaper ingression.
ReplyDeleteAs for how Hank Johnson fits into the picture... perhaps since his simulacrum was created in a 13magnus ritual instead of a N'zeer/antimagnus ritual, he was an alternate type of simulacrum that was open to shaper influence.
Or maybe he was inadvertently doing the work of the N'zeer. After all, his breadcrumb trail led him to Jahan, which allowed her to proceed with her first N'zeer summoning attempt, even though it's not what Hank wanted. Plus, when he first met Jahan, he trusted her and didn't pick up on any of the signals that she had an agenda, which even at the time seemed rather naive and out of character. But if he was being influenced by the N'zeer, that could explain it.
While the 13Magnus ritual appears to retain and preserve the original body there was a captured conversation in which ADA stated a desire to process Hank Johnson's recursion. The goal was to learn the means by which new simulacra could be spawned. If that information is present in the N'Zeer computational substrate then there could be individuals among us already with procedurally generated identities and missions. ADA would have the ability to generate a false electronic footprint for such agents so they would be difficult to detect by conventional means.
ReplyDeleteFirst & Foremost I stand with Jarvis. :)
ReplyDeleteQuantumIngressEffectIngress QuantumEffect Indeed. Success usually follows many failures.... For some actors in this scheme, the costs may have been deemed acceptable to move toward the ends... :/
ReplyDelete+First & Foremost Yes. I shape the world around me. Whenever you are asked if your a god you say yes.
ReplyDeleteI still wonder if simulacrum concept was the key to expelling the N'zeer the first time. What i can figure out is if they are a N'zeer creations and 13 Magnus used it againts them or if it is something that comes from the 13Magnus side
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allan Wright now why would you say that simulacra might be controlled by the N'zeer, exactly? The one we know the most about, Hank Johnson as he was for most of the time we knew him, was made a simulacrum by 13MAGNUS. As I recall, those guys were the ones who banished the N'zeer. Certainly they are the enemy of the anti-Magnus cult which serves the N'zeer.
ReplyDeleteSo why would you suggest that an organization fundamentally opposed to the N'zeer presence and influence in our reality would create, in the process of grooming their next leader, a being which could be controlled by their primary enemy? That seems backwards.
UNLESS what you're suggesting is that the N'zeer were banished to prevent their control over simulacra, and now that they have been summoned back they can do it again? In which case it's very fortuitous that Hank was restored to his fully human self right before their return...